Discussion Post: How sign ups will work

[worldbuildingmod]

The opening of sign ups is still several days away, but thanks to some good discussions here and elsewhere, I am considering making a few tweaks to the way they will work compared to what's currently described in the information post. If you have any strong views about the topics below, please discuss them in the comments of this post.

Decisions I am almost certain will not change

• The exchange will run on "OR" matching
  
• Number of fandom slots for requests: 3-10
  
• Number of fandom slots for offers: 4-10
  
• Minimum number of character tags per offer/request: 1*
  
• Minimum number of worldbuilding tags per offer/request: 1
  

*I would very much rather handle the situation of people wanting to request/offer the type of worldbuilding that doesn't have characters using the "No Characters" mechanism than set the minimum number of character tags to 0, as the AO3 matching algorithm would treat that as being matchable to anybody. (As an example of why this helps: if you request zero characters, you could be matched to anyone offering any character nominated. If there is even one character you dislike in the tag set for that fandom, you can't sign up to receive zero characters without a risk of becoming the recipient of someone who has only offered that character.)

Decisions that I'm comfortable with as-is, but open to persuasion on

• Maximum number of character tags per offer/request: 8
  
• Maximum number of worldbuilding tags per offer/request: 8
  

Changes I am considering making

• Allowing repeated fandoms in requests and offers: Currently, the rules say that each fandom slot should be unique. However, relaxing this would enable people to sign up to receive/create different combinations of character and worldbuilding tags for different media, or different combinations of worldbuilding tags with the same characters and media, etc. Where I can see this might be particularly helpful is in allowing people to sign up to request both fic and in-universe meta with different slots, rather than having a very wide range of prompts all in one slot. You would still need to have at least three different fandoms across all your slots for requests, and four for offers. (As an example of what this would mean in practice: if this change were made, it would be valid to sign up to request fic, art and meta separately for three different fandoms, using nine of your ten, and make seven different offers for a single fandom with different combinations of tags, followed by three offers for three distinct other fandoms. Or any other variation that fitted the overall requirements.)
  
• Allowing "Meta" without "No Characters": In the current rules, you are required to include the "No Characters" tag for a fandom if you are signing up to receive/offer meta for it. This was done out of a desire to ensure matchability, but if repeated fandoms are allowed this would be much less of an issue. Someone on FFA gave some good examples of "meta" which would be character-based (e.g. an in-universe organisation's files on a particular character).
  
• The meaning of "No Characters": at the moment, "No Characters" is meant to be a signal that you are happy to receive/create fanworks without any specific characters in, not a limitation that no characters should appear. However, since the exchange will run on OR matching, a stronger meaning of "No Characters" could be used, with people who are happy with receiving/creating either no or some characters indicating that by signing up for other tags in addition to "No Characters". This would leave people who very definitely want "No Characters" type of worldbuilding able to request/offer only that tag. I am nowhere near as strongly convinced of the utility of this change as the other two I am proposing. (In particular, the current meaning is closer to what people are used to zero characters meaning in Yuletide, and I'm not all that convinced there are any people out there who do have a strong preference for zero characters to appear; if you do have such a preference, please speak up!)
  

Comments

This got long! I hope some of it's useful.

[morbane]

Thank you for opening up discussion!

please ignore what of the below is not useful.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around No Characters. Various of the concepts put forth seem sensible, but they also seem to contain subtle variations and overlaps. I hope I have this straight...

• "No Characters" is envisaged as an alternative to a more common tag set/ sign-up design choice whereby people 'select' 0/Any characters. In the common scenario, 0/Any is frequently interpreted by moderators as "writer can write any character [in the tag set][but can also write others if they're happy to and the recipient asks nicely]". It is frequently misunderstood, with requesters selecting 0 because they don't like the tag set options and specifying different characters, or selecting 0 and then specifying a subset of nominated and non-nominated characters such as "any women please". "No Characters" is intended partly as a solution to that problem.


• "No Characters" can also literally mean "no characters", probably depending on the worldbuilding tag it is matched with. Meta is the most obvious scenario - e.g., "Worldbuilding: Ethuveraz Fashion (The Goblin Emperor)" (meta / art) could easily have no characters in it. (And possibly fic could do, depending on one's definition of characters being present - e.g., a story of a piece of jewellery passing through different owners might/might not fit everyone's definition of characters being present, depending how foregrounded the owners were.


• The label seems fraught to me in that it simultaneously can have its literal meaning and an unconventional connotative one that is new to this exchange. A perfect alternative is not obvious, however.


• Currently, No Characters is functionally in parallel with "other" nominated characters, but also encapsulates them. I wonder if one way to increase its utility would be to define it as "no characters, OR characters who are not otherwise present in the tag set". That may be too complex, but given that it's OR matching, it could be a way to say "I don't want to read or write about the named canon characters that are in the tag set". In many exchanges, if Bill and Bob and Jane are in the tag set, and you loathe Bob, your best strategy is to pick Bill or Jane, even if you're not wild about either of them. Being able to say "Don't want Bill, Bob, or Jane, but literally anyone else is fine" would be a new and interesting feature.


• However, the above would also give people a disadvantage in a fandom where more characters are nominated than the request maximum, and they like everyone.


• I personally prefer "No characters" to mean "go wild, follow the worldbuilding tag and use whatever characters or lack of character presence you like".

Ways in which I'm considering using it in my requests:
I think I might ask for Worldbuilding: Cassandra's court (Black Jewels), fic, and No Characters; I'd be happy for Saetan and Cassandra, the canon characters most associated with this era, to be present, but original characters would be fine too.

I also think I might ask for Worldbuilding: Educational Materials (Hunger Games), both fic and meta, and No Characters - I can see that working for both original characters and, with some meta formats, none at all. I don't see how canon characters could easily be worked in, but would be happy to be surprised.

(The above might be an argument for the duplicated requests, since if I request meta under current rules I have to include No Characters, but there might be a canon where I definitely want meta for one prompt and I definitely want canon characters to appear, in a fic, for another prompt. But I won't be sad if you decide on Fandoms Must Be Unique in the options.)


also, I would like to be able to request canon characters with meta but mostly on principle - I don't have a combination in mind that I will request if it is allowable, and for most that I can think of, I'd be happy to request "no characters" as well.

Re: This got long! I hope some of it's useful.

[worldbuildingmod]

This is great, thank you!

Firstly, I am increasingly convinced that allowing repeated fandoms will help improve the quality of matching, which is my main goal in making everything so complicated. (I am very much hoping for people to get the worldbuilding of their heart/enjoy creating the sort of request that in other exchanges they would usually have a low probability of matching to.) I had picked up the idea that it would mess things up to do that, but it seems I must have been wrong about that. So that's pretty much definitely going to happen, which in turn makes a lot of the rest of this easier.

Your second bullet point very much encapsulates what I had in my head as being the point of having a specific "I really don't mind if what you make focuses on things other than characters" tag for a worldbuilding exchange. I was initially envisaging not matching on characters at all (or in practice, using the character field for the worldbuilding tags and only matching on them), but looking through the thread on FFA back in August there were quite a few people who were interested in worldbuilding, but only if they could also sign up for characters as well. It's the desire to accommodate both those people and people who might want to request/create the sort of things you give examples of that led me to this way of doing it. (In my head, it's almost an overlapping set of sub-exchanges that people opt in and out of by tailoring their sign up.)

I think, between OR matching and advising people on how to use their DNWs, most variants on what people might want to do can be covered by "No Characters" having the "go wild" meaning of your sixth bullet point in practice (people who genuinely do *only* want works with absolutely no characters in can sign up using that tag alone and then DNW characters). I would hope that in most cases people who don't like the characters in the tag set would add the ones they do, but I've had the "damn, I missed noms" feeling enough times to know that that doesn't always happen.

Shortly before sign ups, I think it will be worth creating a separate "how No Characters is supposed to work" post, with sections addressing it from the point of view of both requesting and offering (and what to do if you see it in your assignment when you weren't expecting it). Would it be possible to run it by you in advance?

Re: This got long! I hope some of it's useful.

[morbane]

Would it be possible to run it by you in advance?

Sure, if you like!