Final queries post

[worldbuildingmod]

Please use this post only for responses to these specific queries.

For anything else, please use the previous post
or the clean up post (coming on Thursday).

Thank you to everyone who has nominated; the tag set is now approaching the final stages of being ready for sign ups. This is the final queries post; as such, as well as explaining my remaining queries, I will indicate the actions I intend to take if I don't get responses before I proceed to the final clean up stages. I will leave things until 0700 UTC on Thursday 13th (countdown) before taking action without hearing from the nominator; however, things will run more smoothly if I'm not dealing with all of these at that point, so please do reply even if it's to indicate that my proposed action is fine.

How to link to your nominations

In a few cases below, I indicate that it would be helpful for nominators to link me to their nominations page (and in general it is never unhelpful). Only I as the mod and you as the account holder have access to this page, and it does not allow me to identify you by username, only see that one nomination slate for the WBEx 2022 tag set. You can find it by clicking on "My Nominations" at the top of the tag set, which will lead you to a page with a URL in the format "https://archiveofourown.org/tag_sets/9319/nominations/XXXXXX" where XXXXXX is a string of numbers - it is this URL which I will need.

Specific queries

• A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin - Any or Original Greenseer (ASOIAF), Any or Original Red Priest (ASOIAF), Any or Original Septa (ASOIAF) "Any" includes the idea of OCs by default; the reason I am querying this is really that Any Ironborn was nominated at the same time (though possibly by a different nominator) which leaves me wondering if the intent with that tag was to specify "Any Canon Ironborn".
  Proposed Action: remove "or Original" from each of these tags, leave "Any Ironborn" as is.
  
• Final Fantasy IV - WB: The Sixty-Four Floor Glitched Speedrun (Final Fantasy IV) I have researched this a bit and while it seems a fascinating example of how tricks developers use to deal with constrained programming environments can give rise to glitches, I remain unsure how it creates the opportunity for different worldbuilding to be extrapolated than already arises from the game; clarification would be appreciated.
  Proposed Action: reject the tag.
  
• Friends at the Table (Podcast) - WB: Heretrix bonding with hosts (FatT) This webpage suggests the correct spelling is "Heritrix"
  Proposed Action: adjust "Heretrix" to "Heritrix"
  
• Indivisible (Video Game) - WB: Guardian training in Lahn (Indivisible) This would seem to be a typo for "Lhan"?
  Proposed Action: adjust "Lahn" to "Lhan"
  
• Magids Series - Diana Wynne Jones - Andrew Connick | Koryfos, V. Venables I can't find complete confirmation online that the first tag is two different names for the same character (though there are a lot of hints that this might be the case); there seem to be several "V. Venables" characters - was the intent here to nominate a specific one (if so, which?) or should this be an "Any" type tag?
  Proposed Action: Approve the first tag, change the second to "Any of Will Venables' daughters"
  
• Middle-earth - J. R. R. Tolkien - Gandalf (Middle-Earth - Tolkien) "Olórin" is already in the tag set for this fandom; is the distinction between the two names useful or should they be folded together?
  Proposed Action: Create a "Gandalf | Mithrandir | Olórin" tag despite it being a monstrosity of pipes.
  
• Motherland: Fort Salem - this is the only fandom which remains completely unapproved, rather than having a few tags outstanding. This is because the way that the tags for this fandom are being shown on the approvals interface remains confusing, with character and worldbuilding tags jumbled together (not the case in any other fandom), and I remain unsure exactly how this has come about. It would be extremely helpful if the nominators for this fandom (AO3 indicates there are three) could all link me to their nominations pages so that I can try to disentangle things. Thank you. (Please note that I do need to hear specifically from the original nominators for this particular query.)
  Proposed Action: I will do my best to figure things out without the help of the nominations pages if it comes to it, but I may well make a mess of doing so.
  
• Pocket Monsters | Pokemon (Main Video Game Series) - WB: Sinnoh Legends and/or Johto Rituals (Pokemon MVGS) Are these in any way similar so that it makes sense to consider them together, or should there be two separate tags?
  Proposed Action: flip a coin to decide which to keep
  
• Rivers of London - Ben Aaronovitch - Genius loci in places other than England (Rivers of London) The worldbuilding tag "WB: genii locorum in places other than England" is already in so I assume this is a character tag, in which case I think it should be an "Any" or "Original" type tag. Which would be better?
  Proposed Action: Adjust to "Any genius loci outside England"
  
• Team Fortress 2 - WB: Life after the war I am still waiting to hear whether this is the Gravel War or the Robot War.
  Proposed Action: change to "WB: Life after the Gravel War" as this seems the more likely option
  
• Tetsuwan Atom | Astro Boy - President Rag/Richie (Astro Boy) this seems to be two alternative names for the same character but the "/" could potentially give the impression of a ship being intended
  Proposed Action: adjust to "President Rag | Richie"
  
• The Lord of the Rings - J. R. R. Tolkien - WB: Reclaiming Moria (LotR - Tolkien), WB: The revival of Moria (LOTR-Tolkien) These seem to be two tags with essentially the same meaning from two different nominators, but is there a subtle distinction I'm missing?
  Proposed Action: consolidate as "Reclaiming and revival of Moria"
  
• The Philosopher’s Series - Tom Miller - Any Cartogrammancer(s) (Philosopher’s), Sarah Stewart (Philosopher’s) I have managed to find online sources for the other terms and names in this fandom but "Cartogrammancer" returns no results at all when I Google, and I have not been able to separate out "Sarah Stewart" from real people with the same name. Please could the nominator confirm that these are correct?
  Proposed Action: Approve, but I would prefer to be certain that they are correct before I do so.
  
• Transformers (Aligned continuity) - The Thirteen (Transformers Aligned) This seems to be a group rather than an individual.
  Proposed Action: adjust to "Any Member(s) of the Thirteen" (please note: thanks to a particularly weird bit of AO3 weirdness, this tag has managed to end up under the "Transformers - All Media Types" fandom in the area of the tag set awaiting approval, despite having appeared under the correct fandom before I began approving Transformers fandoms; as such, I may have to reject it from the incorrect fandom - this will make it appear to have been rejected overall, but I will then add it to the correct fandom manually)
  
• 全职高手 - 蝴蝶蓝 | Quánzhí Gāoshǒu - Húdié Lán - Bàtú | Team Tyranny, Lún Huí | Team Samsara, Worlds team player(s) These seem to be groups with distinct members.
  Proposed Action: change to "Any member of ..." for the first two, "Any Worlds team player(s)" for the final one.
  

Finally

At this point, to the best of my knowledge and belief all tags that I have not mentioned above have either been approved or (very rarely) rejected. If you think your tags have been approved but they appear to have since disappeared from the tag set completely please let me know, ideally also with a link to your nominations page so I can reconstruct them if necessary. (On one occasion out of hundreds AO3 did give me an unusual error message that might just have resulted in some tags disappearing, though I suspect it was just the result of accidentally double clicking and so the tags will have gone through the first time.) Having said that, please do check the "Unassociated Characters and Relationships" section at the very bottom for any tags that appear to be missing; there are a number of tags in there which did not get automatically associated and which I will be rescuing as part of general clean up later on - they are not a concern, only tags that cannot be found anywhere.

Comments

[choirwoman]

I'm the person or at least one of the people who nominated "V. Venables", which was the canonical tag. I'm completely in favour of amending that to "Any of Will Venables' daughters".

(my nomination: https://archiveofourown.org/tag_sets/9319/nominations/230092)

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks!

(My pipe dream is that AO3 provides an option to switch off the link between canonicals and a particular tag set if desired; certainly in this case they almost always make things more complicated, not less ...)

[shadaras]

QZGS - While I nominated for this fandom, I didn't nominate those teams! However, if the nominator doesn't come back with a different opinion, I'd like to suggest "Any member(s) of the Chinese National Team" instead of "Any Worlds team player(s)" (refers to the same group, but "Chinese National Team" is the in-canon term; there are multiple national teams playing against each other at Worlds/the World Glory Invitational) (or base it on "Chinese Glory Team", which is the ao3 canonical for this group.).

[rimenorreason]

Same situation here, nominated for QZGS but not those specific teams. I agree with Shade in that "Any member(s) of the Chinese National Team" is likely the best option as it's what used in-text.

If the nominator happens to want members of any national team (though we only have canonical members for Team China), may I suggest the phrasing "Any member(s) of a National Glory Team"

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks, both; I'll wait to see if I hear from the nominator but in the event that I don't I'll look at those suggestions.

[athenejen]

Good suggestions for the phrasing -- thanks, both of you! Now I just wish I had used the (QZGS) for the fandom disambig instead of (Quánzhí Gāoshǒu) so I could've squeezed in another couple of characters instead of using those slots on superfluous Any or No & Original tags... Ah well! I'm happy other people also nominated the fandom in any case. :)

[worldbuildingmod]

I'm putting your tags through now. (For what it's worth, I'm changing all the disambigs to be consistent anyway.)

[athenejen]

Thanks so much! Running this exchange seems like an enormous amount of work -- it is very much appreciated!

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the person who nominated the A Song of Ice and Fire nominations in question (my nomination page is at https://archiveofourown.org/tag_sets/9319/nominations/229639 if you want to reference) and I'm good with your proposed action. Thank you for all your work on this exchange!

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks; those should be going through momentarily.

[zabbers]

I nominated The Philosopher’s Series - Tom Miller here (my nominations page).

Any Cartogrammancer(s) (Philosopher’s)
I did make a spelling error here, and it should be "Cartogramancer" as in this quote from Philosopher's Flight:

Lennox Murchison was a grizzled old man from Peoria who happened to be the world’s leading cartogramancer—a philosophical mapmaker.

Sarah Stewart (Philosopher’s)
This character does actually go by more than one name, and without an existing fandom, I did hesitate over how to nominate her. Her initials are S. E. Stewart, and in the first book she mostly goes by Essie, then uses Sarah in the second when her first name is called for.

The old woman pointed at her. “You’re Sarah Stewart?”

“Ma’am, I go by Essie, if—”

“That’s a weak name. A child’s name. Stop using it.

Thanks for checking on these!

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks for the detailed reply; putting those tags through now.

[tigerlily]

I’m one of those who nominated for Motherland: Fort Salem (TV). This is my page: https://archiveofourown.org/tag_sets/9319/nominations/230413

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks! That's very helpful as it means there's at least one complete valid nomination slate in the mix. I'll continue to wait in the hope of hearing from the other nominators, but at the very minimum your tags will make it in.

[tigerlily]

Thank you!

[flowersforgraves]

Friends at the Table nominator. Yes, that correction works well for me -- thanks for your thorough work!

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks; I'm putting that through now.

[yvannairie]

Indivisible nomination -- yes, that's a spelling error, my bad for not catching it. Also, can confirm that the Transformers Aligned tag is supposed to be "one of the Thirteen"

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks!

(As I explained, it will look as though the Transfomers nom has been rejected but I'll be adding it in to the correct fandom behind the scenes.)

[yvannairie]

I'll pass a note on, I know whose tag that is :'DD

[jane_ways]

Not sure if I'm the Tolkien person, but I did nominate Gandalf, and no, there's no real distinction between Gandalf, Olórin, and Mithrandir. They're all Gandalf; Olórin was his name as a Maia in Valinor and Mithrandir is his Elvish (Sindarin, I assume) name. Sometimes you may see one or the other as a tag depending on what timeframe, location, and/or subset fandom people are working with. I think your proposed solution works well! I also think merging them all into just "Gandalf -- Middle-earth (Tolkien)" would be perfectly reasonable and clear to anyone in the fandom.

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks! I think there are at least two of you nominating so I'll wait to see if anyone else speaks up before making a final decision.

[worldbuildingmod]

I'm hoping that if I know which tags were nominated in which ways I can avoid doing so on a blanket basis, but it remains an option of last resort.

[morbane]

Not the nominator but from past familiarity with the books and from checking an ebook I can confirm Andrew Connick | Koryfos is a perfectly sensible tag. Can't weigh in on V Venables.

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks; the nominator has already spoken up on V Venables (it was the canonical!) and that one's sorted.

[narya_flame]

I nominated Olórin. I think an Olórin | Mithrandir | Gandalf tag is a reasonable solution, unless the nominator for Gandalf was only wanting that specific incarnation of the character.

I'm not the nominator for the Moria tags, but personally speaking, I would read "reclaiming" as Balin's attempted reclamation in the Third Age, and "revival" as the successful return of the Dwarves to Moria in the Fourth Age.

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks! On that basis I think I'll leave the Moria tags separate, and go with the piped Gandalf tag unless someone speaks up very specifically for it (my reading of the discussion of it above is that there's an argument that "Gandalf" would be understood as encompassing all of those, rather than arguing for it to be kept separate).

[bunn]

Rather belatedly: I nominated revival of Moria and did indeed mean the successful return of the Dwarves in the Fourth Age. I don't know if the nominator of 'reclaiming Moria' meant the same, or if they meant Balin, or both. Perhaps tag 'Fourth Age revival of Moria' would be clearer, if it's not too late? sorry for the vagueness.

[athenejen]

I am the nominator for three of these fandoms, my nominations page:
https://archiveofourown.org/tag_sets/9319/nominations/230296

Magids Series - Diana Wynne Jones: as indicated by another commenter, Andrew Connick | Koryfos as two different names for the same character is supported by the text.

Rivers of London - Ben Aaronovitch: please go with "Any"

全职高手 - 蝴蝶蓝 | Quánzhí Gāoshǒu - Húdié Lán: "Any member(s) of" is fine for the first two, and "Any member(s) of a National Glory Team" should work for the third one.

[ysavvryl]

Nominator of the FFIV tag: https://archiveofourown.org/tag_sets/9319/nominations/229696

It is a silly nomination, but my thinking is that it's a somewhat canon AU scenario, a potential example of an urban legend in a magical setting (you go up and down the same set of stairs sixty-four times, then cast warp and end up in a chaotic realm), and a way to explore how glitches would affect the world and its people. But it's fine to be rejected for being unclear; it could be said to be more what people do with the game rather than what the game itself does.

And while not my nomination, the Pokemon query would make more sense to me as two separate tags. If it was Johto and Kanto, I could see some sense in it being one tag. Johto and Sinnoh are distinct enough in their local legends that'd it'd be more difficult to write about both.

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks for getting back to me; for FFIV how would you feel about "WB: Extent of in-universe knowledge of the Sixty-Four Floor Glitched Speedrun (Final Fantasy IV)" as expressing what you're saying there? (I've checked and that does - just - fit under 100 characters.)

(And thanks for the info on Pokemon too.)

[ysavvryl]

That works for me! Thanks for the suggestion :)

Also, I just realized there were two separate Pokemon categories. If the nominator doesn't say anything, Johto Rituals makes more sense to me with Ho-oh being in the character tags.

[worldbuildingmod]

FFIV tag is now in in that form; and that's very useful to know about Ho-oh and Johto, I will go for Johto if the nominator doesn't appear.

[marsdragon]

I'm the Tetsuwan Atom | Astro Boy nominator and yes, those are the same character. He's Rag in Japanese and Richie in the dub. Please change to a pipe if you think it would be best, thank you.

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks! Putting it through in piped form now.

[(Anonymous)]

Nominator for Pokemon here. I'd love to have both tags 'Sinnoh Legends' and 'Johto Rituals' but with only one I'd prefer 'Johto Rituals' (as referring to the summoning of Ho-Oh or Lugia). They're not connected other than being the local legends of their regions.

[(Anonymous)]

My nominations page: https://archiveofourown.org/tag_sets/9319/nominations/229519

[worldbuildingmod]

Thanks! I went with "Johto rituals" on the recommendation of another participant who pointed out the link to Ho-oh who was in the character list.

[reconditarmonia]

I'm one of the nominators for Motherland. Can you clarify what the issues are? On my nominations page, characters are under Characters and worldbuilding is under Relationships.

[worldbuildingmod]

The underlying issue is that the AO3 interface for mods to approve tags does not provide as much information as the interface for participants to nominate them, so what's clear on one end isn't on the other. (Specifically, there's no distinction made between different categories of tag on my end.) That's why I was asking for links to those pages in this post.

I believe I managed to sort it in the end; can you confirm that your tags went through as you intended?

[reconditarmonia]

They seem to, yeah.